Thursday, October 27, 2005

This is some discussion we had on the yahoo group, I m member of. So thought of posting it here. Please do comment if anybody has better logic for the topic

Surya :
Ok thats not what i was talking ... I saw a documentry some time back which said that Attis, Mithras, Osiris, Dionysus, Hercules, and many other gods predate Jesus and they bear a striking resemblance to him. The similarities include: healing the sick, casting out demons, eating the flesh and blood of the savior, remaining dead for three days, then rising, and lots more.

So I personally feel that christian religion being the one of the newest has a lot visible ambiguity ,..... I probably think that may u cannot really find a lot of such ambiguity in hindu religion because one that it always had a sense of unity and a lot of ppl dint do tampering with it ... and second that it is so old that most of the things cannot be even talked on the logical basis and can be debated based on spritual thing .. Because human mind is capable of digging the past only to certain extent.

SID : I think the guy you're referring to is John the Baptist. He was actually one of the people who said Jesus was the Son of God. Additionally, Jesus himself said that he was the son of God and King of the Jews. Finally the manner of his death, i.e. the crucifixtion and the things he said even after he was condemned to death made a lot of believers.

And there are actualy many many versions of the bible. These are called Gospels and are written by the different disciples of Christ. Actually there are TONS of detailed, written documents about the life and times of Christ. But I haven't heard of direct, proven physical evidence. I think the persecution of Christians by the Romans could explain the lack of evidence though, since they were basically trying to eradicate Christianity because they saw it as a challenge to Rome's supremacy.

And from what i remember of my religious studies (which aren't that much), Christianity became a worldwide religion only after a few centuries, and and actually became Europes dominant religion after that.

---Sid


I'm not sure about Islam or Hinduism, but one thing that amazes me about Christianity is that although the events surrounding Jesus Christ occurred only 2000 years ago, not ONE piece of physical evidence actually exists that can be conclusively and directly linked to Christ (through carbon dating, engravings, etc.). Even though I'm part Catholic, I always keep an open mind about this stuff, and again, its possible that the miracles, resurrection, etc. are really myths that have grown and grown over the ages.

No Church, mosque or temple is going to allow evidence that raises doubts about the divinity of their religions to remain. But having said that, its possible that all these central characters of the different religions were indeed Gods. What i find stupid is that each of them end up being such vastly different gods whose followers have ended up dividing the world.

For all the belief in religion around the world, nobody can ever explain why theres an Allah, Ram AND Christ, and not just one of them. My personal opinion - religion with its rules is something man came up with. All you really need is spirituality, and you can only find that within yourself.

---Nigga

On 10/26/05, Surya Pratap Rai wrote:

Arpit,

I think logicaly, according to human intelligence, it makes sense to think that Ram and Krishna were kings, and were so good that eventually ppl started treating them as god. But if that is true I believe the whole funda of hinduism is lost.

I think being from india, for me I would rather take all these things as theory and or unproven facts, rather than giving them my final verdict. I think calling them mythology, is wrongly interpreting the thing. Christian dont say Jesus Christ's so called chamatkar were myth, though a lot of ppl dont really have a clue what happened and why it happened.

Ramayan, is written so accuaretly and precisly (Dates, Nakshtra, Star position, Places, geogrophical accuaracy) that I think first of all it doesnt make sense for somebody to write a story so accurately and then I think to have that kind of accuracy somebody probably needs to be from that era or period when these things were happening.

Again getting back to the point, is there any indian findings which agrees to the date given by the vedas. Do you know if somebody has given logical explaination to the date given by our vedas.

Jai Hanuman, Jai Shri Ram,

BABA

----- Original Message -----

From: Sid Nileshwar

To:

Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:08 AM

Subject: Re: [desibabbans] Re: Timeline according to Hinduism....

2nd and 3rd standard! NO WONDER YOU'RE SUCH A FANATICAL SUPPORTER OF THE HINDUTVA AGENDA! :-)

I like your point about how Ram and Krishna might have been great kings and their subject worshipped them as Gods. This occurence was very common in ancient Egypt at around the same time, and until recently even in modern japan.

Having said that, I've read some very interesting theories on how the great civilizations of the ancient world were so advanced culturally, technologically and socially and how there are many clues that they were actually led by great kings/gods who might have been extra-terrestrial beings. As crazy as it sounds, it would explain a lot of ancient mythological and historical texts which talk about all those civilizations from around the world.

---Nigga

On 10/26/05, Arpit Baldeva wrote:

I read the first mail. Mail itself has some contradictory timeline. That timeline is the common belief of most of the scholars though I believe if you take out the contradictions.

2nd timeline is what hindu mythology states. All the purans and vedas etc.

Personally, I believe the first timeline. I believe that its possible that Ram and Krishna actually were gr8 kings of this world at a time. ppl created god out of them.

If u follow Valmiki Ramayan and Tulsi Ramayan (Ramcharitmanas), u wud see lot of differences between two. The reason being is that Valmiki was a contemporary of "King Ram" and described his as King. Tulsidas was a devotee to "Lord Ram" and described him as such. Unfortunately, Tulsi's version is more popular in hindus that has an element of God. Obviously, Valmiki Ramayan also has elements that make it spicy to read :-)

Whatever is truth, both Ramayan and MahaBharat are gr8 epics for their literature value alone. Also, in case you guys get a chance, read the Ramayan authored by Morari Bapu as well. Ramayan mixed with short stories, remains my most favorite book till date :-). I think that I had read it all by the time I was in 2nd or 3rd :-), no kidding.

Har Har Mahadev, Jai Sri Ram

Arpit

On 10/25/05, Surya Pratap Rai wrote:

Can be. I mean the Brahma Vishnu Mahesh basically are ansh of the one. So what arpit is saying can be correct. But thats too far off our understanding .. the closer thing which we can understand or try to understand, is that when exactly Mahabarata and Ramayana happened .. Though the second email sent by me makes more sense saying that Dwaparyug was long back when Mahabharata was supposed to happened ... including the sandhi kal .. Because if it is according to first email .. then the thing is of very recent origin ... But then again whats the logic or dwarka remains found .. is that just a story ... and then that india srilanka bridge thing ...

Anyways ..Sid just think of it man .. ppl can find it amazing as well as funny(aethist) that Bhrama can create the all the yugs together for 2016 times in one day .... long long day for him ... I think .. not sure though read it some where that .. Bhagwad geeta says that there are 4,320,000 yrs in complete mahayug.

anyways

----- Original Message -----

From: Arpit Baldeva

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:36 AM

Subject: Re: [desibabbans] Re: Timeline according to Hinduism....

Havn't read evrything in detail so wont comment on anything yet.

But FYI, Bramha is a post, not god per se. I mean he is one of 3 main gods but its a post that gets occupied frm time to time (same like Indra) by different ppl. Thats what mythology says. The time is literally infinite for mortals like us though :-).

cheers

Arpit

On 10/24/05, Sid Nileshwar wrote:

I haven't looked at it in detail, but I have 2 immediate question..

This says Life of Brahma = 311.04 trillion years. Does it say anything as to what happens AFTER that?? And Brahma is a God naa...how can he have a finite life???

And second, according to the calculation at the end about the year and all..I calculated it and it comes out to about 2.17 billion years on this scale. Estimated age of the earth is 4 billion years, and the univers 8-12 billion years. What age is this calculation referring to??

Very very interesting though. A little confusing, but I gotta read this in greater detail when I get the time. Where'd you find this?

---Nigga

On 10/24/05, Surya wrote:

I was wondering which of the two timelines are correct ... or I m getting a little confused ... Anyways till now i had heard about both of them .. so tried doing some research on it .. . Anybody has a clearer picture of it

Brahama's Day

SatyaYug

=

1,440,000

years.

TretaYug

=

1,080,000

years.

DwaparYug

=

720,000

years.

KaliYug

=

360,000

years.

Sandhi kaal

=

720,000

years. Period between two yugas

1 MahaYug

=

4,320,000

years. 1 cycle of Satya, Treta Dwapar & Kali Yug.

1 Manvantr

=

72 MahaYug

1 Kalpa

=

14 Manvantr

1 Brahama day

=

2 Kalpa
8.7 billion years (approx.)
Time required for creation and destruction.

Current time (Jan 2000AD) is year 5102 in the Kali Yug of 28th MahaYug, of 7th Manvantr, of first Kalpa.

*The number of years in the Yugas vary in different sources. But the total of all the Yugas (MahaYuga) comes to 4,320,000 years in each account.

On 10/24/05, Surya wrote:

Antiquity if the Indian Civilization – some firsts in science and mathematics

Origin of the Universe according to Hinduism:

theories -

* Concept of multiple universes – One BraHma per universe (creator)

* Originally the vedas were dictated to the first man, Manu, by the Sun-God

Concept of Time:

shortest – Time taken by light to travel one paramanu (= 3anu, smallest indivisible matter)

longest – Yuga (4) comprise a Mahayuga à ONE day in the life of BraHma (Lifetime of BraHma à 100 years)

Timeline :

10,000 BC: According to Dr. B.G. Siddharth of Birla Institute of Science:

Taittiriya Brahmana 3.1.2 refers to Purvabhadrapada constellation's rising due east – a phenomenon occurring at this time

7000 BC: Early evidence of horses in the Ganga region (Dr. David Frawley, Author of "Gods, Sages, and Kings" – a must read for anyone interested in this subject!)

6500 BC: Rig Veda verses (1.117.22, 1.116.12, 1.84.13.5, etc) say winter solstice begins in Aries indicating the antiquity of this section of the vedas.

6000 BC: Rig Veda describes Rajasthan (western India) as a fertile region. Disbelieved by many European scholars. Recent satellite survey and archeological digs point to the veracity of the vedas.

5000 BC: Saraswati Civilization (also known as Mohenjodaro-Harappan civilization, but dated to be much later by 19th, early 20th, century European scholars) begins. Current date is derived by considering archeological sites, reached after excavating 45 feet. This mature culture will last for nearly 3000 years, ending around 1700 BC.

4300 BC: Traditional date set for the Ramayana.

3928 BC: According to Dr. Sri P.C. Sengupta, this is the earliest reference to an eclipse in Indian history.

3139 BC: Preferred date for the Mahabharata. Based on extensive work done by B.G. Tilak. Reference to vernal equinox in Rohini (middle of Taurus).

3102 BC: Beginning of the Kaliyuga.

3100 BC: Aryans inhabit Iran, Iraq and Western Indus-Saraswati frontier. Huges debate rages in India regarding this Aryan Invasion Theory. Originally proposed by Max Muller, this theory has survived for over a hundred years despite many apparent contradictions. The theory tries very hard to place India and events in India as occurring after 4000 BC, the Biblical date of creation.

Current archeological digs, satellite imagery, modern techniques have yielded sufficient evidence to cast a serious doubt over the widely held invasion theory.

2600 BC: Major portions of the Vedic hymns are composed.

ca 2040 BC: Birth of Lord Rama according to most scholars

1900 BC: Saraswati river dries up, shifting the civilization more inland.

1500 BC: Submergence of the stone city of Dwarka – recently discovered off the coast of Gujarat, a western Indian state.

This is a possible date of the lifetime of Lord Krishna.

1424 BC: Mahabharata war occurs (dated by Sage Vyasa's citation in his epic poem on the war of winter solstice at Dhanishtha, which occurs around this time).

1300 BC: Panini systemizes Sanskrit grammar in 4,000 rules (in a book called Ashtadhyayi). Western scholars give the date as 400 BC.

850 BC: The Chinese are using the 28-nakshatra (constellation) zodiac called Shiu, adapted from the Hindu jyotisha system.

800 BC: Later Upanishads are recorded

273 BC: Ashoka, the last of the great Mauriyan kings, is coronated.

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